@rX: I have little data on variants. If the system works, as I suspect it will, with only the one stator magnet, you might try that first to see if you can reproduce the antigearwise motion, as a start.

The dampers are tuned by trial and error. If too close they retard the magnet too much and it won't synch. Too far and there's no benefit. Once the distance is found, rotating a little at a time and trying the spin until I found a "sweet spot" is how I did it. The effect of the dampers is small, in any case.

@OC: I think the rotation rate will actually help the pivots move as we want them to, perhaps requiring a spring for return, but that's OK because that energy is stored and will be returned later in the cycle.

Oh & BTW you two, congrats on also being the first to get a 'positive bump'.

Such that it is.

Hypothetically speaking, naturally.

I just watched the video again, and it is awfully dark, isn't it? Even the version I put on my mp4 player isn't that dark and contrasty. It certainly isn't that dark in the original. Oh well, sorry, next time I'll use the actual video lights and that will cure that.

Also I have access to a truly high-speed video system, so I can take some vids at 30,000 frames/sec and see just exactly how the relationship develops between the rotor and stator magnets. Also maybe the StroboTach will help here.
Next week.

It'd be fascinating to see the effect thru one of Pinestone's flux resonators...

alsetalokin:Also I have access to a truly high-speed video system, so I can take some vids at 30,000 frames/sec and see just exactly how the relationship develops between the rotor and stator magnets.

I'm looking forward to this. It would probably enable us to measure the rotation of the magnets precisely, thus much better reconstructing of the field interactions would be possible even if we never get access to a real simulation software.

vibrator:It'd be fascinating to see the effect thru one of Pinestone's flux resonators...

I agree. Pass that thing over 'ere...

3Ax8
Start duration run:
21:29:00 EST, 4 January 2008.

middle stator magnet top rpm at start: 5316



(edited to correct the date--I don't even seem to know what day it is...)

21:40:00

stator mag at 5360 rpm
rotor at 1340 rpm

(this is the best I've seen this configuration go)

Hey Al,

has this thing been running for 20 minutes or 24 hours and 20 minutes?

Your start duration says 3 January 2008....today is 4 January 2008 where I am. Other parts of the world are already at 5 January 2008.

You beat me to it.

21:47:00

stator mag at 5338 rpm
rotor at 1315

(I know the 4:1 relationship holds--the numbers that I report are what the tach reads so these numbers might not always be exactly 4:1 due to instrumental error and so forth.)

Heh, watching those figures posting into the forum has WAY more intrigue than a good movie...

See, this is the problem. I've tried this duration test before, but I always get sleepy and have to shut down before the test has completed.
I'm afraid I can't stay up like I used to be able to, back when "Deserted Cities of the Heart" was current. I've had some physical setbacks, in fact my whole year of 2007 has been pretty much me getting old, fast. So I might fall asleep...

21:56

stator 5334
rotor 1334

(yawn,,,,)

put the coffee on , it might be a long night, you havn´t got a web cam on messenger have you , wink wink

i see you have pulleys ready for a friction test, but what about a pick up coil?

Look, it will probably keep running for a while. I mean, it isn't slowing down yet, just varying a little around the max rpm, it seems.

---the sound just changed. let me go see what happened.

5298
1328

it just slowed a little, the bearing sound changed
(it's 22:03:30)

[quote][cite] alsetalokin:[/cite]21:56

stator 5334
rotor 1334

(yawn,,,,)[/quote]

It must be boring to watch it spinning down. Maybe you should disassemble it and try a different, more exciting configuration. A start-stop-reverse device would be the holy grail IMHO.

Craigy:i see you have pulleys ready for a friction test, but what about a pick up coil?

I brought an oscilloscope home this evening, and a little Rogofski coil, so I will be doing some snooping. In the morning! If it still works!

Unfortunately I am only allowed 2 cuppas per day, and I use those up first thing in the morning. But I may have to violate Dr's orders tonight...(it wouldn't be the first time TTYTT.)

aber0der:

alsetalokin:21:56

stator 5334
rotor 1334

(yawn,,,,)

It must be boring to watch it spinning down. Maybe you should disassemble it and try a different, more exciting configuration. A start-stop-reverse device would be the holy grail IMHO.

I know. I'm worried about that conservation of momentum thing. Maybe I'm slowing the Earth down...

fluctuations around the sweet spot sv speed, perhaps?

22:08

5292
1322

It does appear to be slowing down.

Craigy:fluctuations around the sweet spot sv speed, perhaps?

Well, OK, but that doesn't explain the acceleration, I think. Unless the system somehow varies its own timing--or perhaps the Judson dampers are having more effect than I thought, by varying the lag as the rotation rate changes...
Hmmm....

What am I saying? The thing is probably just picking up EM from the upstairs dishwasher, or something.

(stares at his Tri-Field Meter in disbelief...)

have you opened the window? have you changed the ambient temp in any way?

Do you have a chart recorder? Excellent for those experiments that put you to sleep while they wind down.

22:13, thanks

5283
1319


Gahh---I'm getting sleepy.

22:13 maybe?


Maybe the momentum change is causing a time warp.

Real-time blogging, nice idea! It will surely get more and more dramatic with the increasing time.

I wanted to say, I haven't slept for some 42 hours now, but I'm still waiting to see when it starts to slow down considerably... so keep on too, for lurkers' sake! :)

*shakes Al and hands him some coffee*

Craigy:have you opened the window? have you changed the ambient temp in any way?

Surely you jest. It's -7 C outside.

modervador:Do you have a chart recorder? Excellent for those experiments that put you to sleep while they wind down.

Not at home! But now that I think of it, the lab does own a portable chart recorder, but it's kind of hard to get paper and pens for it (it's an antique practically, who uses CRs anymore when there's LabView?) so we don't use it much. I didn't think of it to bring home, sorry, and I do have labview here at home for .vi development purposes but no DAC except for the sound card...
hmmm---kludgy stuff. just wait till next week.

can you put it on some scales to see if it looses weight? lol this is so daft

Is there maybe a belt that connects the device with Albert Einstein's spinning corpse?

Craigy:can you put it on some scales to see if it looses weight? lol this is so daft

My little digital balance doesn't have the capacity, and my bathroom scale doesn't have the sensitivity. Again, at the lab---will it fit in the Mettler? I don't think so, but there are other alternatives...

aber0der:Is there maybe a belt that connects the device with Albert Einstein's spinning corpse?

I think Albert was a suspenders kind of guy, don't you?

22:23

5273
1317

[quote][cite] alsetalokin:[/cite]22:08

5292
1322

It does appear to be slowing down.[/quote]There are a couple of webcam sites (free to join, video is almost real time) where you could put your webcam on and let us watch the thing for you...

I have a pro-membership on one, so I could create a room just for you and even password it to keep the "normal" punters out if required.

Just a thought.

EDIT: Sorry. over 18`s only....

OK, this is puzzling. I would have thought that it would either maintain a constant speed, or quit altogether and coast to a stop (which should take a little over 2 minutes from 1300 rpm.)
How is it possible that it gradually slows down?

I have a non-contact thermometer--at the lab. Maybe some bearing is heating up or something.

Or maybe the magnets are weakening--perhaps we have invented the magnet ruiner.

[quote][cite] alsetalokin:[/cite]


I think Albert was a suspenders kind of guy, don't you?[/quote]

[url=http://www.cardcow.com/images/albert-einstein-at-beach-1945-celebrities-28954.jpg]I'm not so sure.[/url]

are the other 2 stators really required, it seems as if it will self sustain using the one stator contra rotating, with those ali Brakes

I don't have the upload bandwidth necessary for a webcam, im afraid.

Maybe you could get astream to put it up for free.
It would be better than watching the London Eye.

Craigy:are the other 2 stators really required, it seems as if it will self sustain using the one stator contra rotating, with those ali Brakes

I don't know.

Go ahead and unscrew them while you are waiting.

riterX:Maybe you could get astream to put it up for free.
It would be better than watching the London Eye.

the problem is getting the bits to go up that little piece of co-ax out of the house. they come down all right but I think the landlord got the cheapo package from the isp, so upload bw sucks.

Is it eating itself?

riterX:Go ahead and unscrew them while you are waiting.

Ok.

Sorry double post , so its slowing down, slowly, did you take a gauss reading of the magnets before the run down? Did you record the ambient temperature. Or the steorn classic , have you a failing bearing?

Also many Long wave broadcasters switch to low power at night , at the speeds you are taking about 5000 revs etc you would almost be tunning them in. I believe you but those are the questions people will come back with.

It occurs to me that you may be dealing with a magnetic standing wave, (see correction edit below) the small rotor (stator) corresponding to the hydraulic pressure, the large rotor to the large scale circulation within the rotational wave that divides the two water levels.

It must be remembered that pressure is only unacknowledged motion, i.e. small scale closed path motion which we can idealise as small scale rotation.

If this is right then you have certainly punched a hole in the Gamma-atmosphere.

Correction edit: When I wrote "standing wave" I meant of course a hydraulic jump. This should have been clear from the rest of the paragraph but I may as well correct it to avoid any later misunderstanding.

22:34

5240
1311

just before:

Why do I do these things? When I unscrewed the idle stators, I got one of them too close, I guess, and the middle magnet "dropped out" and the rotor freewheeled. I couldn't get the magnet to synch back up and the system stopped.

No, I'm too tired, I'm not going to start it agian tonight. Besides my fingers are blistered from flipping the damn magnet over and over.
Good night, all, thanks for your interest and support, more tomorrow afternoon.

Also I fully realize that a bunch of numbers posted on a web site prove nothing at all, really.
MPMMCPW.

Al, sleep the sleep of the righteous.

G'nite, looking forward to updates (and replications of the 'anomaly').