Not signed in
(Sign In)
(Sign In)
Vanilla 1.0 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.
Technology Issues: WhipMag Rotor development (MPMM)
Bottom of Page-
Grimer:Sounds good to me Harvey. Carry on and good luck.
(I think you mean eluded.
e·lude (ĭ-lūd')
tr.v., e·lud·ed, e·lud·ing, e·ludes.
To evade or escape from, as by daring, cleverness, or skill: The suspect continues to elude the police.
To escape the understanding or grasp of: a name that has always eluded me; a metaphor that eluded them. See synonyms at escape.)
LOL, yeah... thats the word I was alluding to
Thanx Frank.
-
-
CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
Unbelievable.
Its obvious by now that AL is not taking a break or on holiday.
Whipmag is dead, AL took the piss out of overconfident, basically slapped him with a wet mackeral. -
-
RunningBare:Unbelievable.
Its obvious by now that AL is not taking a break or on holiday.
Whipmag is dead, AL took the piss out of overconfident, basically slapped him with a wet mackeral.
@RB
Most of this goes so far over my head its a dot in the beautiful blue sky....
I saw the vid clip on Youtube I think it was yourself that posted it. It looks mentally impressive.
So does that mean it was all ballix???
There was me thinking that having a computer monitor the stator and give it a kick or two now and again to keep it in sync would perpetually keep it running.
With hopefully, blasphemy of blasphemies, more energy out than put in... -
-
CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
Setanta:
@RB
Most of this goes so far over my head its a dot in the beautiful blue sky....
I saw the vid clip on Youtube I think it was yourself that posted it. It looks mentally impressive.
Thanks for reminding me, it will be removed before this day is over.
So does that mean it was all ballix???
Yup -
-
RunningBare:
Setanta:
@RB
Most of this goes so far over my head its a dot in the beautiful blue sky....
I saw the vid clip on Youtube I think it was yourself that posted it. It looks mentally impressive.
Thanks for reminding me, it will be removed before this day is over.
So does that mean it was all ballix???
Yup
ballix as in hidden motor, batteries etc etc... elastic band.....????
Ok i figure, we all get our hands on pitchforks sticks and few burning touches and....
Yup a good ol fashioned lynching! -
-
CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2008 edited
Setanta:
ballix as in hidden motor, batteries etc etc... elastic band.....????
I know a couple of easy ways, including the ones you mention.
Yup a good ol fashioned lynching!
Aww shucks, your being kind, cant we at least use the thumb screws first
-
-
RunningBare:
Setanta:
ballix as in hidden motor, batteries etc etc... elastic band.....????
I know a couple of easy ways, including the ones you mention.
Yup a good ol fashioned lynching!
Aww shucks, your being kind, cant we at least use the thumb screws first
Thumbscrews...?
Im thinking it could be poetic to use a WhipMag... spinning disks and all that.... -
- CommentAuthoroverconfident
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
RunningBare:Unbelievable.
Its obvious by now that AL is not taking a break or on holiday.
Whipmag is dead, AL took the piss out of overconfident, basically slapped him with a wet mackeral.
I still have a full bladder. Back in November, I figured this was going to be a long road to travel. Then Al stepped in and things started looking a bit rosier. I thought if an unusual effect could be demonstrated, things might carry on under their own momentum. That does not seem to have happened.
At this time Cloud Camper and Harvey seem to be doing the most interesting work. If anyone else is, they are not posting their results. I still hope someone will come up with more exciting reasons to explore the concept further.
I've already posted the essence of my idea. I'll try to contribute something whenever I think it might do some good. But, in general, I'm conserving my energy for the long haul. I'm convinced there is worthwhile knowledge to be gained from this exercise. -
I, for one, do not believe that Al's video was falsified in any way. I don't think it showed any definitive evidence of OU. I was as interested in it as Al was, or maybe less so, since he had a physical something to be interested in and all I had was his typing to be interested in.
I do think that such rash negative judgments about him, his integrity, and his character are the reason OC got short shrift from him as opposed to any nefarious motive. I think all the typing at him exceeded his patience, when he had no reason be patient with it at all.
Think about it, what's his motivation to type in a forum? What's yours? What if that goes away and you have to do all your typing about things that do not meet that motivation? Will you continue to type? Why would you expect him to?
It baffles me that you can be angry at him because he isn't giving you what you want. He wasn't here for what you want, just as you aren't here for what I want. We are all here for our own purposes. It's mind blowing that because he isn't giving you what you want, that you will automatically assume the opposite of what you believed just a little while ago. It's ridiculous!
I don't type here often, but I felt there are far too few rational voices here, so I'm chiming in too little and too late. For that I apologize. -
-
CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
korkskrew:I, for one, do not believe that Al's video was falsified in any way. I don't think it showed any definitive evidence of OU. I was as interested in it as Al was, or maybe less so, since he had a physical something to be interested in and all I had was his typing to be interested in.
Its not what AL has done, its more what others have failed to do, and thats a successful replication despite AL giving all the details, then suddenly AL is sneaking around on FizzX.com without saying anything, I deffinitely get the impression hes pulled a schoolboy prank and is now snickering at his monitor. -
-
- CommentAuthorDiscombobulatorr
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
Kork,
who are you addresing that to ? I was not aware that anyone was particularly angry at Als. I think it was quite a well set up stunt that he organised. I do think the joke may have been a little unkind to OC, but I wouldn't see it as something to bear a grudge about. -
- CommentAuthoroverconfident
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
I'm not bearing any grudges. I am a little disappointed because it looked like Al was going to make my task a bit easier. But he has now dropped out and it looks like the majority of effort is back in my lap again. I wish I had the knowledge, tools, and skills he has.
Al did reveal a couple noteworthy things about my concept, even if nobody anywhere is ever able to get the acceleration he demonstrated. He proved GW rotation worked as I said it would. He also discovered AGW rotation, something I hadn't considered. These are both significant characteristics of the WhipMag configuration. He also mentioned how stator oscillation could sustain rotation, which has now been replicated by Harvey. All good stuff.
Most of all, I'd like to thank Al for the attention he gave to the WhipMag idea. I spent several months trying to discuss the idea with other scientists and engineers and none of them even paid attention (except for Dr. Mike. He paid attention, but denied any possibility of overunity). They rejected the idea immediately based on their preconceptions.
I wish I could get more skilled scientists and engineers interested in the concept, something beyond the Alsetalokin construct. I know there are still a few of you out there. But not many, and mostly with pretty limited resources. It would be really nice if some magnetics lab would pick up on this and do some serious work on it with serious tools. There are things to be learned from this. -
-
CommentAuthorgranthodges
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
And here is what I think the lesson is: Don't trust people who won't provide verification for miraculous claims. -
-
-
CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeMar 7th 2008
granthodges:And here is what I think the lesson is: Don't trust people who won't provide verification for miraculous claims.
Priceless! -
-
who made a miraculous claim?
-
[quote]nobody anywhere is ever able to get the acceleration he ["Al"] demonstrated.[/quote]He didn't demonstrate anything beyond his machining skill and a penchant for deception and obfuscation. All he showed was a video -- nothing but images and not great images at that -- in which, yes, his device seemed to accelerate. But despite many reasonable and polite requests he never:
a) made a transparent machine
b) sent any device to anyone else
c) proved that the whole thing was not faked
And then he disappears. That's confidence inspiring, is it? Aren't there almost inumerable ways to account for the video, especially if, as is most likely,it was deliberately deceptive?
[quote]They [Dr. Mike and others] rejected the idea immediately based on their preconceptions.[/quote]That's highly misleading and incorrect. They didn't use "preconceptions" to reject the idea of overunity. They used centuries of superb work done in part by mental giants all of which provides tons of evidence that overunity is not possible. Their judgement is based entirely on facts and evidence and not on prejudice as your wording suggests.
[quote] I'd like to thank Al for the attention he gave to the WhipMag idea.[/quote]You don't mind that, in all likelihood, he was just using you as a toy and stringing you along?
I know your resources are limited but if you want to pursue your device, it shouldn't be horribly exhorbitant to have local machinists build it for you. Why not do that? -
- CommentAuthoroverconfident
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2008 edited
maryyugo:
They [Dr. Mike and others] rejected the idea immediately based on their preconceptions.
That's highly misleading and incorrect. They didn't use "preconceptions" to reject the idea of overunity. They used centuries of superb work done in part by mental giants all of which provides tons of evidence that overunity is not possible. Their judgement is based entirely on facts and evidence and not on prejudice as your wording suggests.
What I'm trying to get at is they didn't even bother to consider whether there might be anything interesting or potentially useful about the idea, whether OU or not. It was totally dismissed on first glance. Three new and reproducible effects have already been discovered (not counting Al's acceleration). None of these would have been discovered if nobody had taken the time to investigate. Are any of them useful? I don't know, but even these trivial effects might contribute something worthwhile.I'd like to thank Al for the attention he gave to the WhipMag idea.
You don't mind that, in all likelihood, he was just using you as a toy and stringing you along?
Doesn't matter. He's the only person at the time who bothered to listen, made an effort to understand what I was saying, and took some action based on my idea. Anyone else that has attempted to understand did so as a result of Al's actions. I owe him a debt of gratitude for that much, even if it turns out I was just a plaything.I know your resources are limited but if you want to pursue your device, it shouldn't be horribly exhorbitant to have local machinists build it for you. Why not do that?
If you'd been paying attention, there's a lot more to this than just the money. I didn't design Al's device, he did. How many of my designs would it take to even wind up with a device that has a chance of demonstrating whatever it might be capable of. I don't have the machinery or skills to machine it. I don't have the knowledge to properly and scientifically describe what I might see. I don't have the tools or knowledge for testing a device. Hell, I never would have even tried AGW rotation.
You seem to think it was all a waste. Not so. We have learned a lot already. I'm sure there's plenty more. -
-
CommentAuthorEvolvealready
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2008
[quote][cite] granthodges:[/cite]And here is what I think the lesson is: Don't trust people who won't provide verification for miraculous claims.[/quote]
You didn't say that!
-
-
-
CommentAuthorEvolvealready
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2008 edited
I am beginning to think Al was hoaxing. Remember what prompted him to put the video on youtube? It was Omni. He did it to get Omni. And he did; Omni was immediately squirming his way in saying it was OU for certain and making demands.
Then Al took it down. Omni was made even more of a public fool than he was, which is why he is raving about it now. Al kept saying (almost every post) that MPMMCPW. He even said that what's his name the Desert pothead was right in his videos.
I think he was so desperate to remain private in part because of the claims he was now uncomfortable with, despite the fact that it was meant to be educational.
I'm not sure, but that is the way I am leaning. -
-
@evolvealready:
How can you say that?
His MPMMCPW mantra must certainly have been a joke, or not?
I mean we saw it on YouTube, and it was clearly overunity!
-
[quote][cite] overconfident:[/cite]
[b]You seem to think it was all a waste. Not so. We have learned a lot already. I'm sure there's plenty more.[/b][/quote]
I agree. -
I feel I am watching the brain cells of forum posters dying right before my eyes
Have any here, OC excluded, actually read the dialog between AL & OC from the beginning? If not, then save your criticism until you have. And if you have, then surely you have forgotton the gist of the events. From the moment the video hit he internet Al has had to deal with dual edged fallout. On the one hand his very character has been all but assasinated to the point that an alternate identity has been offered. And on the other hand he has had to be the FAQ contact for all the "I think my theory is right and nothing will change my mind" personel that think they are trying to help but are really seeking validation of their own theories. You can put me in that category if you wish, but at least I'm willing to admit my mistakes. The forum puts him between a rock and a hard place to such an extent that nothing he does can be taken as proof because as we all know anything can be typed and photoshopped right? Add to this the very personal attacks he received and the stalking nature of some trying to discover his true identity and I am surprised that anyone aware of it all could be so callous as to exude prejudice on the basis of absence. Where is your humanity? Are we de-evolving such that the empathy of our ancestors is lost on us? Have the logic brain cells died off such that you cannot put together the cause and effect and ascertain the purpose of all these events?
Al experienced a real event and shared it with the world.
Al sought (and seeks) scientific verification of the event.
Al thought by sharing everything he knew a solution could be found.
Al answered question after question and was shot down for it.
Al believes the unit can be replicated and he has replicated it.
Al listed the things we should be focusing on.
Al inspired us to put our hands into the work and see for ourselves first hand.
Al showed us that even the skeptics can be amazed at new things.
Al helped us by providing diminsions and weights and types and techniques.
Al explained his postion over and over and over to deaf ears.
Al does want this to succeed.
If you think what Al did was so easy, then please post your video of a duplicate device performing exactly as demonstrated. If you can hoax it the same as you claim Al did, then I will give you all the benefit of the doubt that the possiblity exists although I reserve agreement for the process that provides proof either way.
We could use all the help we can get in solving this puzzle and forcing Al into exile is very counterproductive.
-
- CommentAuthorsterlingda
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2008 edited
Harvey:New Approach - Success.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/v/m6DiE81UBfs
I've posted a feature page here: http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:MPMM:Variant:Harvey
Feel free to help update it with a full set of instructions, parts list, diagrams, etc. so others can replicate it.
Sterling -
-
CommentAuthorEvolvealready
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2008
It would be easy to hoax. I did not think Al would do that. I now think it may be that he did.
Harvey, his actions are not as obvious as you say. Even when I was sure he was telling the truth (though I always doubted it was over unity) I was puzzled by his bizarre behavior. I love the guy, but I think he may have been hoaxing to teach us a lesson. If so, I must say--I was right before when I told him he is a great teacher.
I am even more hardened in my already adament skepticism. That is something to thank him for. -
-
@ Sterling,
Thanx I'll check it out. It certainly will require some work to provide the necessary documentation, but I'll see what I can do this weekend.
Today I substituted the solenoid with an open frame version I had in a box of parts. It seems to max out at about 150 RPM rotor speed and the stator travel is critical. If the stator over travels the unit brakes off the back side of the stator field.
My goal is to reduce the pulse width as much as possible prior to posting any replicate information. This may include the addition of a voltage multiplier driven off the back EMF of the solenoid to compensate for the reduced pulse width.
I'm concerned that my initial tests indicate that a 180 degree travel may not be feasible with this type of technology and we may have to abandon the solenoid in favor of a piezo actuated device. Yada's work with a voice coil may prove promising as well. But I am convinced that the sluggish nature of the solenoid will prove to have negative impact on any practical applications. -
[quote][cite] Harvey:[/cite]I feel I am watching the brain cells of forum posters dying right before my eyes
Have any here, OC excluded, actually read the dialog between AL & OC from the beginning? If not, then save your criticism until you have. And if you have, then surely you have forgotten the gist of the events. From the moment the video hit he Internet Al has had to deal with dual edged fallout. On the one hand his very character has been all but assassinated to the point that an alternate identity has been offered. And on the other hand he has had to be the FAQ contact for all the "I think my theory is right and nothing will change my mind" personnel that think they are trying to help but are really seeking validation of their own theories. You can put me in that category if you wish, but at least I'm willing to admit my mistakes. The forum puts him between a rock and a hard place to such an extent that nothing he does can be taken as proof because as we all know anything can be typed and photoshopped right? Add to this the [i]very[/i] personal attacks he received and the stalking nature of some trying to discover his true identity and I am surprised that anyone aware of it all could be so callous as to exude prejudice on the basis of absence. Where is your humanity? Are we de-evolving such that the empathy of our ancestors is lost on us? Have the logic brain cells died off such that you cannot put together the cause and effect and ascertain the purpose of all these events?
Al [b]e[/b]xperienced a real event and shared it with the world.
Al [b]s[/b]ought (and seeks) scientific verification of the event.
Al [b]t[/b]hought by sharing everything he knew a solution could be found.
Al [b]a[/b]nswered question after question and was shot down for it.
Al [b]b[/b]elieves the unit can be replicated and he has replicated it.
Al [b]l[/b]isted the things we should be focusing on.
Al [b]i[/b]nspired us to put our hands into the work and see for ourselves first hand.
Al [b]s[/b]howed us that even the skeptics can be amazed at new things.
Al [b]h[/b]elped us by providing dimensions and weights and types and techniques.
Al [b]e[/b]xplained his position over and over and over to deaf ears.
Al [b]d[/b]oes want this to succeed.
If you think what Al did was so easy, then please post your video of a duplicate device performing exactly as demonstrated. If you can hoax it the same as you claim Al did, then I will give you all the benefit of the doubt that the possibility exists although I reserve agreement for the process that provides proof either way.
We could use all the help we can get in solving this puzzle and forcing Al into exile is very counterproductive.[/quote]
I agree that your attitude is the one that we should all now be taking. But in my own defence and that of others we have to put Al's work in the context of the appalling Steorn debacle of July 2007 and their subsequent silence. Many people, especially those who have been on the forum since the beginning and have contributed numerous posts both here and on the SPUD, andromeda for example, felt they had trusted Sean and he had let them down badly. It is only natural that any hint of funny business should be seized upon when Alsetalokin showed his video. For me the worst hint was the 17000 joules which he never explained. This resonated with 550 bhp which we know was a lie - or at the very least - dissimulation. -
-
CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2008
We could use all the help we can get in solving this puzzle and forcing Al into exile is very counterproductive.
Forcing Al into exile?, so did someone go to his home, physically twist his arm and tell him to stay away from the online remote forums?
Utterly nuts, Al does not have to answer when people call for an answer, but he can pick and choose, he has that flexibility, Al is not timid person, hes not staying away because he feels hes been forced, lets not forget, he started this! -
-
-
CommentAuthormajicmagneticmoment
- CommentTimeMar 8th 2008
@ Harvey
You can reduce your pulse width by changing your solenoid core material. If you are using soft iron, it has a relative permeability of about 5000. Going to an annealed carbon steel can get you as high as 40000. Of course, if you can afford super permalloys, they are typically over 100,000 for a price.
Terry -
-
..but..but.. isn't this all simply a case of the solenoid giving the rotor a little nudge via the stator to keep it spinning? All rather meaningless unless more power can be extracted from the rotor than is used to power the solenoid. How about using the magnets in the rotor moving past a static coil to generate electricity. See if you can get more power out then is used to power the solenoid? I'm sure you will find COE is confirmed.
-
RunningBare:We could use all the help we can get in solving this puzzle and forcing Al into exile is very counterproductive.
Forcing Al into exile?, so did someone go to his home, physically twist his arm and tell him to stay away from the online remote forums?
Utterly nuts, Al does not have to answer when people call for an answer, but he can pick and choose, he has that flexibility, Al is not timid person, hes not staying away because he feels hes been forced, lets not forget, he started this!
Actually OC started this and AL assisted. Al's exile is not entirely by his own choice but rather is an effect caused by circumstances resulting from the negative feedback he has received for his involvement in OC's concept. Choosing who to respond to can be misconstrued as favoritism or shunning. If it is physically impossible to respond to 180000 requests for 'more' information a person is left with only a few solutions. First, a general statement to all. Second, address those issues that seem relevant to helping OC achieve success with his concept. Third, issue statements to those spewing negative feedback to ensure that they understand their place in the discussions. And fourth, remove oneself as a catalyst so that the heat of the discussions can stabilize and productive communiqué can ensue.
Regardless of Al's reactions to the events as they unfolded it is important to realize that his actions are well within his moral rights and it is immoral for us to impune our personal rules and guidelines on him as if he is obligated in some way to fulfill our wishes. I have no doubts that if Al was met with a scientific online remote community willing to work with him and OC on these events, rather than all the mudslinging and threatening, he would still be here on Steorn with us. Granted some discussion may have been done externally to alienate the legal ramifications of developing a concept on a Steorn operated site, but again this isn't a choice as much as it is an action motivated by protection.
When viewing all of the dialog present in this forum alone it is easy to discern the true intentions of everyone involved. Al's true intention was to help OC reach a complete understanding with regard to his concepts - to bring reality into touch with ideal. Once the artifact surfaced, Al's intention was (and is) to have it explained scientifically. This involves sound physical application and mathematical support. You would think that of all assembled groups of intellect this group right here would be the one to do just that due to its deep connection with magnetics. I share Al's disappointment in the failures that followed and also share in his hope that OC's concept will find a workable solution through investigatory experimentation. If man can make solid H2O ice with a temperature well above the boiling point of water then perhaps there are yet some things to explore. -
-
CommentAuthorgandydancer
- CommentTimeMar 9th 2008
Harvey, since you state that it is easy to understand the "true intentions" of Al and "everyone involved" by reading these forum posts, what do you think Sean's "true intention" is? -
-
gandydancer:Harvey, since you state that it is easy to understand the "true intentions" of Al and "everyone involved" by reading these forum posts, what do you think Sean's "true intention" is?
Sean as in CLaNZeR? -
-
CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeMar 9th 2008
Harvey:
Actually OC started this and AL assisted.
No, Al started this trying to prove something to omnibus, so he posted a video, everyone who has ever inhabited free energy forums know that if you post a video that shows an "apparant" working magnet motor then it is going to get you lots of attention. -
-
cloud camper:
The lesson is clear. NEVER scavenge parts from your current working model to run the next test. It seems like a good idea at the time because it saves time and money. But what actually happens is, you keep changing the working model until you finally try something that DOES NOT WORK, and then you stop.
Damm that is where I have gone wrong
< http://www.overunity.org.uk/strayed.jpg > -
Harvey:
gandydancer:Harvey, since you state that it is easy to understand the "true intentions" of Al and "everyone involved" by reading these forum posts, what do you think Sean's "true intention" is?
Sean as in CLaNZeR?
No I think he Means Sean of Steorn as in these forums and Orbo. -
-
CommentAuthorgandydancer
- CommentTimeMar 9th 2008
[quote][cite] CLaNZeR:[/cite][quote][cite] Harvey:[/cite][quote][cite] gandydancer:[/cite]Harvey, since you state that it is easy to understand the "true intentions" of Al and "everyone involved" by reading these forum posts, what do you think Sean's "true intention" is?[/quote]Sean as in CLaNZeR?[/quote]
No I think he Means Sean of Steorn as in these forums and Orbo.[/quote]
Yes, that's right. Sean of Steorn. Why would you think I meant ClanNZer? -
-
gandydancer:
CLaNZeR:
Harvey:
gandydancer:Harvey, since you state that it is easy to understand the "true intentions" of Al and "everyone involved" by reading these forum posts, what do you think Sean's "true intention" is?
Sean as in CLaNZeR?
No I think he Means Sean of Steorn as in these forums and Orbo.
Yes, that's right. Sean of Steorn. Why would you think I meant ClanNZer?
Because regarding the WhiPMag CLaNZeR is involved and McCarthy isn't. -
CLaNZeR:
cloud camper:
The lesson is clear. NEVER scavenge parts from your current working model to run the next test. It seems like a good idea at the time because it saves time and money. But what actually happens is, you keep changing the working model until you finally try something that DOES NOT WORK, and then you stop.
Damm that is where I have gone wrong
< http://www.overunity.org.uk/strayed.jpg >
ROFLMAO
If metas are rotas thats a mixed rotaphore
-
Harvey:
If metas are rotas thats a mixed rotaphore
ROFL
I knew you would appreiatte it mate haha
Strange thing is that it has a pretty dam good wind down time ummm, back to me Tri-Gates LOL -
-
CommentAuthormajicmagneticmoment
- CommentTimeMar 9th 2008
Sean,
Try putting your Whipmag stator near the sticky point on this chimera.
Terry -
-
RunningBare:
Yes, he posted a video after describing the "unusual behaviour" for a week or so, it only acknowledges how carefully planned his hideous hoax was!!~Harvey:Actually OC started this and AL assisted.
No, Al started this trying to prove something to omnibus, so he posted a video, (...) -
Harvey et al.
RE: AGW rotation
Q: Has anyone determined conclusively and objectively how AGW rotation is sustained (during deceleration) and when precisely it drops out?
Cheers
Yada..
. -
It is sustained by momentum providing shear at the equitorial pass. The rest of the cycle is a duality of push behind and pull ahead through the 45 degrees after the shear. The first few degrees is very sharp positve torque immediately following the equitorial pass. At the zero cross point between positive torque and negative torque the torque/time curve is much more shallow and runs nearly parallel to the torque vector as it approaches the equatorial pass - in fact I suppose it never actually reaches the negative torque expected becuase of the curve and due to shear cause by the momentum of both rotor and stator through this 45 degree region.
When the momentum can no longer support the shear throuugh the negative torque region, magnetic connection occurs causing the force to succeed in stopping the stator. Thus the momentum of the rotor is coupled magnetically to the stator. After stopping, the coupling continues to pull the stator in the opposite direction thus shifting to coupled antirotation (GW sync).
I started on the mathematical model in the WhiPMag physics and Mathematics thread but due to the 7th grade mentality in that thread I moved it to Fizzx. There I found an apathetic group and decided it extra work wasn't worth the effort. You can search my posts there for graphs of the predicted torque curve.
Cheers
-
Harvey:
...
The first few degrees is very sharp positve torque immediately following the equitorial pass.
...
Cheers
Harvey,
Thanks.
1) How do you measure stator torque (during equatorial transitions -- a link would be good)?
2) Where did you get the gauss viewer (film?) that you use in your videos?
Cheers
Yada..
. -
Yadaraf:
Harvey:
...
The first few degrees is very sharp positve torque immediately following the equitorial pass.
...
Cheers
Harvey,
Thanks.
1) How do you measure stator torque (during equatorial transitions -- a link would be good)?
2) Where did you get the gauss viewer (film?) that you use in your videos?
Cheers
Yada..
.
1. I projected my charts mathematically. You could test static torque with a strain guage. Various techniques have been mentioned here in the forum as well. Prony Brake, Drag Pulley, Torsion Rod etc. There is also elaborate torque sensors available on the market as well. You could fabricate a spring gauge and calibrate it against a known tension. If you are looking for comparisons along the stator path you can use a tie-wrap (plastic wire tie) as shown in my video and measure the difference in flex. Dynamic torque will be different as the force diminishes with distance due to angular velocity and becomes a vector product rather than a static moment.
The equitorial pass is unique in that the tangential force between the rotor and stator is at a maximum at either side of the equator and shifts to perpindicular (thus zero torque) dead center on the equator. So on one side it is maximum negative torque and on the other side it is maximum positive torque.
2. K & J magnetics. You can google search other vendors "magnetic viewing film". -
Harvey,
Great reply to my questions concerning your measurement of equatorial torque and source of viewing film.
Many thanks
Cheers
Yada..
.
