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Technology Issues: WhipMag Rotor development (MPMM)
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- CommentAuthoralsetalokin
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Craigy:Sorry double post , so its slowing down, slowly, did you take a gauss reading of the magnets before the run down? Did you record the ambient temperature. Or the steorn classic , have you a failing bearing?
Also many Long wave broadcasters switch to low power at night , at the speeds you are taking about 5000 revs etc you would almost be tunning them in. I believe you but those are the questions people will come back with.
OK, two more.
Craigy, you are absolutely right. I'm in a basement but certainly power from ham operators is one of the many many things that must be ruled out before anybody gives credence to a magnet motor that seems to run for unusually long durations.
No, I haven't measured the magnet strengths. I have the instruments to do so at the lab, but I've been kind of busy earning a living, and haven't had as much time as I usually do.
The ambient temperature is damn cold.
The bearings I'm using for the stators are barely worthy of being called ball bearings, and they may be getting magnetized or picking up grit from the air. But they seem about like they did when brand new. Some are good, some are crappy, but they all still turn relatively freely.
@Frank: Yes, I was afraid of that. You'll be glad to know that I will be saying bedtime prayers tonight. Just in case. -
me and my big mouth , we should have left it alone ...LOL
Night all -
It's 3.45am in London. I think I had better get back to bed myself - though I doubt I'll sleep much.
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- CommentAuthorsterlingda
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
He, awesome breakthrough. I would like to offer to have you post a set of instructions and information at PESWiki.com so people don't have to read through all these posts to get the relevant info.
Amazing that on this day of magnet breakthrough, there is also a gravity motor breakthrough: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:G_Force_Rotational_machine (video pending upload to YouTube)
and a cold fusion breakthrough:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:G.E.M._Technologies_Omega_Energy_Cell
and an electromagnetic breakthrough:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:EBM:South_Shore_Energy_Generation_interest
and a pendulum breakthrough:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Paper:Free_Energy_of_the_Oscillating_Pendulum-Lever_System
looks like Howard Johnson died a couple of days too early; he's missing out.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Obituaries:Howard_Johnson
Sterling -
the bearings will almost certainly be magnetised by now, but it seems if it can self sustain that may not be a big issue, i wonder about the magnets heating up, as they will lose power, anyway , i´m off to bed now ..cheers
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CommentAuthorenergyman8
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008 edited
Very cool Al and OC--great collaboration. It's a pity the forum isn't full of threads like these. -
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- CommentAuthoralsetalokin
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Thanks, RX.
I'd like to hear DrMike's guess as to why it speeds up when it does. -
- CommentAuthoralsetalokin
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Sterling, thanks for the offer, we read your site at lunch every day in the boardroom.
But I am afraid that this doesn't belong there. Especially not with such things as some of those you have listed here. -
alsetalokin:Thanks, RX.
I'd like to hear DrMike's guess as to why it speeds up when it does.
If you don't mind, I'd like to feature it on FE Truth with and possibly do an email interview with you Al.
Nice work. -
[quote][cite] alsetalokin:[/cite]
...
@Frank: Yes, I was afraid of that. You'll be glad to know that I will be saying bedtime prayers tonight. Just in case.[/quote]
Nothing to be afraid of. If you've engineered a magnetic standing wave its all over bar the shouting. The essence of any engine is stepping up rotational motion from the small to the large. In short its the inverse process from:
[color=darkred]Big whorls have little whorls
That feed on their velocity,
And little whorls have lesser whorls
And so on to viscosity. [/color] -
Al,
I told you an interview was coming.
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- CommentAuthoroverconfident
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
sterlingda:He, awesome breakthrough. I would like to offer to have you post a set of instructions and information at PESWiki.com so people don't have to read through all these posts to get the relevant info.
Sterling
@Sterling, it's about time! I submitted information to your wiki twice about this project in its earlier stages and never received so much as an acknowledgement. It was already worthy of mention almost a month ago. What took you so long?
Just like everyone else, I guess. Has to be on YouTube before it's worth a second look.
Overconfident -
- CommentAuthorsterlingda
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Speaking of interviews, I'd love to have you on our Free Energy Now show. See our past line-up at http://freeenergynow.net -
- CommentAuthorsterlingda
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
p.s. don't get so glum about being the hot shot in making this breakthrough. For this one success, there have been millions of failures that were laughed at. You happened to have hit on a working combination -- thanks in large measure to those failures. Those less-than-successful attempts we've reported on, are part of the manure of this farm. Comes with the territory. Your dissing them, is like pissing on your mother. It's bad form. -
- CommentAuthoroverconfident
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
007:
alsetalokin:Thanks, RX.
I'd like to hear DrMike's guess as to why it speeds up when it does.
If you don't mind, I'd like to feature it on FE Truth with and possibly do an email interview with you Al.
Nice work.
My response to you, 007 is that I would not want to do anything for Free Energy Truth until you open it up and allow open discussion on the site. -
sterlingda:Speaking of interviews, I'd love to have you on our Free Energy Now show. See our past line-up at [url=http://freeenergynow.net
Get in line
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- CommentAuthoroverconfident
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
sterlingda:Speaking of interviews, I'd love to have you on our Free Energy Now show. See our past line-up at [url=http://freeenergynow.net
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CommentAuthorEvolvealready
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
[quote][cite] overconfident:[/cite][quote][cite] 007:[/cite][quote][cite] alsetalokin:[/cite]Thanks, RX.
I'd like to hear DrMike's guess as to why it speeds up when it does.[/quote]
If you don't mind, I'd like to feature it on FE Truth with and possibly do an email interview with you Al.
Nice work.[/quote]
My response to you, 007 is that I would not want to do anything for Free Energy Truth until you open it up and allow open discussion on the site.[/quote]Damn OC, you are the man! -
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overconfident:
007:
alsetalokin:Thanks, RX.
I'd like to hear DrMike's guess as to why it speeds up when it does.
If you don't mind, I'd like to feature it on FE Truth with and possibly do an email interview with you Al.
Nice work.
My response to you, 007 is that I would not want to do anything for Free Energy Truth until you open it up and allow open discussion on the site.
Discussion will be opened up for a period to allow proper debate on this. The only reason it was taken away was due to a small group of Free Energy Tracker debunkers, who were neither sceptics or believers.
Are you planning on open sourcing this. I mean If there were 200-300 people all over the planet replicating the same principles then this would be the biggest thing since Take That split up, maybe even bigger (pardon the joke). -
- CommentAuthoroverconfident
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008 edited
007:
overconfident:
007:
alsetalokin:Thanks, RX.
I'd like to hear DrMike's guess as to why it speeds up when it does.
If you don't mind, I'd like to feature it on FE Truth with and possibly do an email interview with you Al.
Nice work.
My response to you, 007 is that I would not want to do anything for Free Energy Truth until you open it up and allow open discussion on the site.
Discussion will be opened up for a period to allow proper debate on this. The only reason it was taken away was due to a small group of Free Energy Tracker debunkers, who were neither sceptics or believers.
Are you planning on open sourcing this. I mean If there were 200-300 people all over the planet replicating the same principles then this would be the biggest thing since Take That split up, maybe even bigger (pardon the joke).
I can see just how well informed you are. This has been open source ever since it started. Why don't you do a bit of reading? SPDC is not the only place where anything happens (in fact, I'll bet a lot less has happened over there than over here.).
edit: And open debate should be allowed ALL the time for ANYONE. I think you should call that place "Censored and Restricted Free Energy Opinions". -
overconfident:
007:
overconfident:
007:
alsetalokin:Thanks, RX.
I'd like to hear DrMike's guess as to why it speeds up when it does.
If you don't mind, I'd like to feature it on FE Truth with and possibly do an email interview with you Al.
Nice work.
My response to you, 007 is that I would not want to do anything for Free Energy Truth until you open it up and allow open discussion on the site.
Discussion will be opened up for a period to allow proper debate on this. The only reason it was taken away was due to a small group of Free Energy Tracker debunkers, who were neither sceptics or believers.
Are you planning on open sourcing this. I mean If there were 200-300 people all over the planet replicating the same principles then this would be the biggest thing since Take That split up, maybe even bigger (pardon the joke).
I can see just how well informed you are. This has been open source ever since it started. Why don't do a bit of reading? SPDC is not the only place where anything happens (in fact, I'll bet a lot less has happened over there than over here.).
You'll forgive me, but I've been here in residence two years and seen 30,000 plus threads on this forum and in the SPDC, it's difficult to keep up with all of them. -
- CommentAuthoroverconfident
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008 edited
@007
Please read the edit I added to the last post.
You haven't even kept up with the headlines. My threads have almost all been on the first page for a solid month now. -
@Alse
Good job, great video, congratulations.
John -
overconfident:@007
Please read the edit I added to the last post.
You haven't even kept up with the headlines. My threads have almost all been on the first page for a solid month now.
LOL, like I say the number of important, interesting and potentially revolutionary threads in this forum you could count on one hand.
You'll also notice that I don't allow ANY commenting, such are my time constraints, so even believers can't comment, so I reject the accusation of censorship. -
- CommentAuthoralsetalokin
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
If you want my opinion, I think Sterling and 007 should go interview each other, and leave me the f**k alone.
I am telling you, MPMMCPW.
What I have found is almost certainly an artifact.
OC's design is nifty, unique, and fascinating. That's why I started to play with it.
I have repeatedly asked folks to calm down, I haven't had the chance to eliminate a bunch of things, I regret having posted the video, but I was so pissed off at Omnibus that I couldn't help myself. Now everybody thinks we'll be driving around in OCMPMM-powered cars next year. Forget about it!
It's interesting, it's anomalous, it's tantalizing, but it isn't the answer to our prayers.
Now if OC wants to talk to Sterling or put his design up on PESWiki, that of course is his business. But I don't think it's a good idea at this point.
And if you do, I'd appreciate it if I got left out. After all, it might be difficult explaining to the boss on Monday at lunch, when we are reading PESWiki, what pictures of his laboratory are doing all over the internet. -
@ OC
To be fair to 007 I have only today sat up and taken your invention seriously. I've no doubt this is true for many others.
I read the threads but coming from the Carnot cycle concepts I couldn't integrate your thinking with my own. -
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CommentAuthormodervador
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
alsetalokin:
modervador:Do you have a chart recorder? Excellent for those experiments that put you to sleep while they wind down.
Not at home! But now that I think of it, the lab does own a portable chart recorder, but it's kind of hard to get paper and pens for it (it's an antique practically, who uses CRs anymore when there's LabView?) so we don't use it much. I didn't think of it to bring home, sorry, and I do have labview here at home for .vi development purposes but no DAC except for the sound card...
hmmm---kludgy stuff. just wait till next week.
I presume you meant ADC for data logging. You can get those for parallel port or USB much cheaper than even a copy of a National Instruments or Data Translation ADC board, AFIAK.
Labview's great but I still use strip-chart recorders. Nothing beats being able to write notes directly on the paper as the data scroll by. The paper strip is also a RARAR (rapidly accessible random access record) of the experiment that allows you to compare any two epochs by simply folding the paper over on itself.
OK, about the video. Imagine the arrangement that you and OC came up with, but with a single stator magnet. Now imagine both rotor and stator were identical 3-lobed rotors, each lobe having a PM arranged North pole facing out.
I have such a device on my desk, loaned to me by a colleague several weeks ago when I spied it on his desk (he'd been gifted it from a student). It was obviously purchased at a store somewhere, but there are no markings on it that would tell me where to find another. I've tried to find it on the web to no avail. I suppose I could just make another.
At any rate, I told my colleague of how Steorn were improving on a windmill/generator design when they stumbled upon an anomaly. From pictures of their test rigs, it appeared to me that they had been playing with using magnetic rotors to replace gears and therefore eliminate friction.
This toy, and your device, clearly demonstrate a "magnetic gear" effect, albeit in a single plane rather than in orthogonal planes shown in pictures of Steorn test rigs. The toy shows a few other effects seen in your video.
The bearings are not so great and chatter a bit at various RPMs. You can counter-rotate the rotors synchrounously by hand and sit back to watch what ensues. At some RPM one rotor will start to get out of sync with the other, at which point the poles will get into some configuration where one rotor will stop cold and the other will double its RPM. The stopped rotor will wiggle a bit while the other spins on, apparently uncoupled. Then, as it winds down a bit, the stopped rotor will swing just enough that it gets a kick from the other. Then, the spinning rotor will stop cold and the other will acquire the full RPM. When RPM gets low enough, this back-and-forth can occur with every revolution. Then the rotors might synchronously oscillate +/- 60 degrees.
I thought you'd like to know about this. Maybe I'll get my media support guy to loan me his digital video cam and we'll get this on YouTube, if it continues to be relevant. -
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I reckon most would like to see a video of that device mordervador.
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- CommentAuthoralsetalokin
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008 edited
That's a pretty neat toy. I've seen them too.
At the Ontario Science Center in Toronto, there is a chaotic pendulum setup that does a similar thing but with a pendulum bob on a jointed linkage, hooked to a wheel on an axle bearing. You give the wheel a little spin, the momentum is transferred to the bob, and back and forth things go, swinging everywhichaway for a long time. Sometimes it's hard to see where the momentum goes, as all elements are momentarily stationary (seemingly).
They also have a PMM there that's got Finsrud beat all to hell. (I think it runs on compressed air coming up thru a part of its display case...)
I agree with you about the utility of CRs, actually, for the very same reasons you state. You obviously are a labrat too.
(DAC = data acquisition card, aka ADC, analog-digital converter)
(ETA and yes we have a USB dongle, and also a parallel-port interface, and even a pcmcia card for laptops. All that stuff is at the lab, and I'm at home.) -
- CommentAuthoroverconfident
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
@Sterling, @007 please move further discussion to the chat thread. We are trying to use this one for ongoing development. Thanks.
@Al, I agree with you on both counts. Free Energy Opinion has been closed since the day it was opened. And Sterling wouldn't even give me the time of day until he saw the video. He probably never even bothered to analyze my primitive graphics and animations.
No interviews from me on either count. If they want, I give them my permission to simply post a link to the "chat" thread here, so looky-loos don't interfere with what we're doing too much. -
- CommentAuthoralsetalokin
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
@modervador:
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CommentAuthormodervador
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
To me, DAC = digital-to-analog converter. The thing you plug into a PCI slot (or ISA slot, or S-100 slot) is a DAQ board (or DAQ card), which has a sample clock, an ADC and some signal conditioning (amps, filters) on it. It also might have digital I/O and a DAC on it to control the experiment, but those functions are also available on separate boards. Maybe I'm showing my age.
Cool info about the Toronto stuff. I'll have to pay a visit. -
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CommentAuthormodervador
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
alsetalokin:@modervador:
I was wondering how you hot that square box around the emoticon, so I quoted it to see the BBcode. I thought it was a good-natured jab on how I was a "square", but I see that it was actually a hidden link! -
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overconfident:@Sterling, @007 please move further discussion to the chat thread. We are trying to use this one for ongoing development. Thanks.
@Al, I agree with you on both counts. Free Energy Opinion has been closed since the day it was opened. And Sterling wouldn't even give me the time of day until he saw the video. He probably never even bothered to analyze my primitive graphics and animations.
No interviews from me on either count. If they want, I give them my permission to simply post a link to the "chat" thread here, so looky-loos don't interfere with what we're doing too much.
I don't understand you guys. Putting a video on YouTube and creating multiple threads on www.steorn.com (300,000 hits every 3 months) is hardly a way to avoid attention from "looky loos" as you call them. What did you expect?
You need to look past petty arguments and feeling upset that no-one paid any attention previously. That's in the past. The nature of free energy claimants is such and always has been. It's a pre-requisite to think it's a fraud. But, videos of spinning things spinning on their own are hard to ignore, so I think you're being overly harsh on Sterling as he must see some amount of bogus sh*te go past his desk every day.
Let me know If you change your mind about being interviewed. It would have been nice for people to have the guys behind it actually talking about it in person. -
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CommentAuthormodervador
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
alsetalokin:@modervador:
Heh, I see you have also noted when you float the table to isolate the system from seismic noise from the building. I also have notes about when the room air supply was diverted away from the apparatus, and when the deadband in the thermostat was adjusted to eliminate temperature oscillations. Much work done just to be able to say that you recorded only what you say recorded. -
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Nice video alsetalokin.
Is that a genuine Princess Auto laser tachometer? :) -
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CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
reposted
Remarkable, bloody remarkable!
Heres a thought for you, the outer stator magnet is a hollow cylinder, so its effectively a shorted coil, perhaps the rotor magnets are inducing a current in the outer stator strong enough to change or reduce its force in sync with the rotors rotation.
Whatever you got there guys, well done to you both! -
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- CommentAuthorsterlingda
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
If you have accelleration from just magnets interacting, as appears to be the case here http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=PIvZJ9xGutI then you have something truly remarkable. It certainly isn't ready for market; not close; but it is proof of concept that magnets can provide motive force. That is groundbreaking.
The next thing will be to show that no degaussing is taking place. For this to be a valuable effect, not just interesting science, you need to show that the accelleration is not at the expense of magnets loosing their strength through some new scientific discovery.
Meanwhile, I withdraw my "Free Energy Now" interview invite (to OC) until this is further developed and until the inventor/replicator is less antagonistic. I must say it is truly ironic that the replicator is such a skeptic, while what appears on the video is a major accomplishment. If that video showed up the day the world went to view the Stoern demo, the world would have been impressed.
As for your lab appearing at PESWiki, I don't see the concern. The only thing that appears in the video is the device, nothing else. The camera angle doesn't change, and only shows some kind of surface in the background. -
Thinking about Harold Aspden and the Aspden effect, it occurs to me that we may have the equivalent of Faraday's discovery of electric induction on the magnetic scale. The rotating field is an accelerating field. It could be that the field motion of the "stator" magnet is inducing the field motion in the rotor.
Another way out consideration is this:
If, as I believe, nuclei are held together by Gamma-atmosphere pressure, then if the OCAL phenomenon represents the magnetic equivalent of a hydraulic jump, there could be a drop in local Gamma atmosphere pressure. This could lead to a increase in the rate of any radioactivity.
I personally think that the drop in G-atm. pressure would be relatively negligible but we do know that rates of radioactivity can be affected by changes in the state of the orbital electrons by pressure, temperature, electric and magnetic fields, stress in monomolecular layers, etc. (Emery; Ann. Rev. Nucl. Sci. 1972, page 165) -
[quote][cite] sterlingda:[/cite]
...
I must say it is truly ironic that the replicator is such a skeptic, while what appears on the video is a major accomplishment. [/quote]
It reminds me of St.Paul falling off his horse on the road to Damascus.
I think part of him is desperate to find it's an artifact, -
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CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008 edited
Why don't we just stick with what we know is real presently
The fact that it accelerates is remarkable in itself, we also know that stator magnet will be seeing an alternating magnetic field from the rotor, the stator magnet being hollow is effectively a coil, so it goes without saying that an ac current must be induced in the stator from the rotor, this surely must be affecting the magnetic field in the stator, cutting the magnetic lines of force just as magnets do to a coil in a normal motor? -
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- CommentAuthoroverconfident
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008 edited
@Grimer, @Everybody,
Why is it almost nobody takes me seriously. I guess, maybe nobody ever has taken me seriously (except Al). I have stated several times here that I think this is "Magnetic Reconnection" effect. Go research it! The only reason they focus on plasmas in most of the papers is because that's where they have seen the effect most commonly. If you research well enough, you will discover that plasmas are NOT an essential requirement for the effect. I believe we have stumbled upon a way to leverage that effect.
I have made several suggestions that should enhance the effect. If they actually do improve things, then I will be even more convinced.
So go do some research. -
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CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
@OC
How about cutting us a little slack, we've been months on a board thats claimed something remarkable and shown nothing, yours is the only one thats shown any promise to date, I understand your frustration, I've been there, I would like people to take my idea more seriously, but its up to them, I just put the idea out there.
It was obvious they were going to come out of the woodwork once the video was posted, time to take the rough with the smooth. -
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- CommentAuthoralsetalokin
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
Please, no theorizing until we know the facts.
It spins, we don't know why, it's probably a worse mistake than even Steorn made.
Later I will be able to explore the issue further.
All this talk about Faraday meeting Saul on the road to Damascus makes me nervous.
Meanwhile I've been fooling with the 'scope. 2 new pics up in the usual place. -
- CommentAuthoralsetalokin
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008
That's pretty funny. We both refuse to be interviewed--so he withdraws the invite.
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CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008 edited
I hope that I'm putting forward realistic theories, even if it does slow down eventually, something is accelerating it to begin with, I'm guessing at this point that if the stator could be mechanically synced to the rotor with advance and retard control, then you may well be onto something. -
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- CommentAuthoralsetalokin
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008 edited
I think it's a good idea, and I think your analysis of the possible induced AC is also quite sensible.
The "magnokinetic Judson dampers", while rather whimsically named, are an attempt to do just what you suggest. I hadn't thought of varying their position, but maybe that will indeed work as you think. I'll put it on the list of things to try. Thanks! -
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CommentAuthorRunningBare
- CommentTimeJan 5th 2008 edited
I forgot to add, the reason for deceleration could be due to loss if the strength of the stator magnet, after all it is seeing an AC field from the rotor, this is akin to degaussing. -
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[quote][cite] alsetalokin:[/cite]
All this talk about Faraday meeting Saul on the road to Damascus makes me nervous.
[/quote]
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